السبت, نوفمبر 23, 2024
السبت, نوفمبر 23, 2024
Home » حوار مع لودميلا سارسكينا عن دوستويفسكي

حوار مع لودميلا سارسكينا عن دوستويفسكي

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المجلة الثقافية الجزائرية / ترجمة: محمد الفحايم

لودميلا سارسكينا متخصصة في الأدب الروسي في القرن 19 و20 ، حاصلة على الدوكتوراه في الفيلولوجيا، مؤرخة أدب وناقدة أدبية وكاتبة وأستاذة، تشتغل منذ ثلاثين سنة ، تحديدا، على أعمال دوستويفسكي التي كرست لها العديد من المقالات والمحاضرات والكتب من بينها ‘ ف. دوستويفسكي:انتصار على الممسوسين’ ( ترجم من الروسية إلى الفرنسية 2008 )، وهي عضو في الجمعية الدولية لأصدقاء دوستويفسكي وتنتمي إلى هيئات تحرير مجلات عديدة مختصة بالأدب الروسي. منذ 2001 تدرس وتترأس البحث في المعهد الوطني لمعرفة الفنون. تعد لودميلا سارسكينا صاحبة سيرة ثقافية عن إسكندر سولجنتسين ، وهي كتاب مرجع نشر في روسيا عام 2008 وسيصدر هذه السنة بالفرنسية 2010.

– ما مقاربتكم لدوستويفسكي؟ هل أعددتم مفهوما خاصا للقراءة والتحليل؟

– قبل ثلاثين سنة ، كان بمقدور باحث أن يقول لكم:’ إن منهجيتي ماركسية لينينية’ . أما أنا فلم أملك ، البتة،أية منهجية،لا بنيوية ولا شكلانية ولا ما بعد حداثية، لأن كل شبكة قراءة هي ،بالضرورة، اختزال. إن مقاربة من هذه لا تلائم كاتبا كبيرا، فدوستويفسكي أكثر تنوعا وتعددا، وفي نظري لا توجد سوى منهجية مدرّة ومنتجة، هي الانطلاق من النص. إن المادة ذاتها هي التي تمنح الأجوبة للأسئلة التي نطرح. وينبغي، بالطبع، أن نقارن، وأن نقرّب، وأن نأخذ بالحسبان جميع الكتابات والكرونولوجيا، فأنا لست من زمرة النقاد الأدبيين الذين يعدّون سيرة الكاتب أمرا لا طائل من ورائه، إذ لا يمكننا أن نقرأ روايتي ‘ الناس الفقراء’ أو ‘ الجريمة والعقاب’ خارج السياق البيوغرافي، وأن نؤولها على هوانا. فكل تفصيل من الحياة اليومية له أهميته ويؤثر في الإبداع، خصوصا في حالة دوستويفسكي الذي يقع دائما فريسة للهموم المادية والعاطفية.

– كيف نضج الكاتب؟

– كان دوستويفسكي الشاب مأخوذا بالكتابة، في رواياته وقصصه الأولى يعمل على كتابة شخوصه الفنية، لقد كان يكتب باستمرار، يبتكر ويجرب ويفشل . كان يعتقد أن الأدب بمقدوره أن يكون عملا مربحا، يعود عليه بالمال الوفير( مثل بوشكين وغوغول)، هذا المال الذي كان يعوزه دائما. كان يعيش في دوامة العالم الأدبي، بيد أنه كان يتعهد بأن لا يكتب تحت الطلب، وألا يسفسف نصوصه، بل أن يهذبها باستمرار. وبالطبع شكل توقيفه عام 1849 فسجنه نقطة القطيعة . لا يمكن أن ندري بالمرة كيف سيمكنه الاستمرار في التطور، لو لم تقع هذه الكارثة. سيقول فيما بعد : ‘ أحمدك يا سجن’، سيسمح له هذا الشقاء بإعادة اعتبار أشياء كثيرة في حياته : المجد، المال، مواضيع الكتابة. وكان ولوجه الثاني عالم الأدب أكثر صعوبة من الأول… لم تكن رواية ‘ الناس الفقراء’ قد نشرت بعد في عام 1846 ، بينما كان الجمهور يتحدث عنها من قبل، كان كل الناس في ‘ سانت بترسبورغ’ يلهجون بعبقرية الكاتب، لأن الناقد الكبير’ بيلنسكي’، صاحب السلطة النقدية والنفوذ الأدبي، كان قد ذرف الدمع هو الذي لم يكن يبكي البتة. لكن الجمهور قاطبة كان نسي دوستويفسكي في 1860 ، وبعد عشر سنوات من الصمت عاد وفي جعبته ‘ حلم العمر’ و’ بلدة ستيبانتشكوفو’ ، فماذا سيقول عنه صديقه الكاتب ‘ نيكراسوف’، الديموقراطي النزعة و المحرر في عدة مجلات أدبية ، والذي كان في مقدوره استقبال زميله على الرحب والسعة ونشر أي شيء له وهو الناجي من غيابات السجن ، قال: ‘ إن دوستويفسكي قد انتهى ‘. وبعد خمس سنين ستظهر رواية ‘ الجريمة والعقاب’.

– تنبأ دوستويفسكي بالثورة الروسية . من أين جاءته موهبة التنبؤ هذه ؟

– لم يعتبر دوستويفسكي نفسه نبيا أبدا، لكنه كان ذا إدراك حاد لما كان يموج حوله . كان يقرأ الجرائد بنهم ، وكان على بينة من كل شيء، يوفق في تبين الحمولة التاريخية لحدث بسيط . إذا كان كتابنا المعاصرون يزدرون الأحداث الجارية، فإن دوستويفسكي لم يكن ، أبدا، ليبلغ ما بلغه لولا هذا التعطش إلى الأخبار . كان يقول : ‘ ينتابني الحنين إلى اليومي، تعوزني أحداث الساعة ‘، وهو عنوان الفصل السابع من القسم الثاني من ‘ مذكرات العالم السفلي’، وهو يقرأ في الصحافة خبر جريمة هامشية ، غامضة على ما يبدو، تتعلق بمقتل الطالب ( إيفانوف) غرقا في بحيرة ، فإنه يكشف عن دلالة مميتة . كان دوستويفسكي مشخصا كبيرا أكثر من كونه نبيا ، وتعد روايته ‘ الممسوسون’ مختبرا إبداعيا جرّب فيه الكاتب واستنبط مقولة الثورة : توحيد الناس بواسطة الدم الذي سكب بطريقة جماعية ، فبهذه الطريقة أضحى رائيا كبيرا لروسيا ولبقية العالم . لم يكتف دوستويفسكي بالتنبؤ بالثورة أو بوصفها ، بل منحها المفتاح الكوني ، استخرج منها القوانين والمبادىء ، السرّ والوصفة السياسية . كان النقاد الماركسيون يقولون في العام 1922 ‘ كان دوستويفسكي يعرف عن آليات الثورة وعن تركيبها الداخلي وخباياها أكثر ممّا يعرفه عنها كبير الثوار . كل شيء تحقق مثلما توقعه ‘. لقد كان ، بحق، رائيا ، فتحليله السياسي والنفسي لروسيا في القرن 19 و20 بل وحتى في القرن 21 لا يجارى . أضحى أبطاله أسماء مشتركة ومصطلحات لوصف وضعيات سياسية معقولة .

– كيف أبدع دوستويفسكي هاتين الشخصيتين الجذابتين أكثر ، اللتين تبدوان كما لو أنهما وجهان لعملة واحدة ، الأمير ميشكين وستافروكين ؟

– خلق أولا ميشكين. في البداية كان الأمير في المسودات أكثر ضخامة مثل ستافروكين ، لكن شخوص دوستويفسكي تنمو وتتطور على مدار إنجاز الرواية بوصفها بحثا كذلك . تمّ تصوّر ميشكين باعتباره إنسانا رائعا وإيجابيا ، لكن دوستويفسكي لم يكن يعرف كيف سينجز هذا المشروع . من أين يأتي الرجال الطيبون ؟ من أي طينة جبلوا ؟ نعم إن الأمير هو المسيح سوى أن المسيح هو الربّ ، أما ميشكين فليس إلاّ إنسانا . في روايته ‘ الأبله’ ، كل الرجال الذين ارتبطوا بهذا الرجل الذي يجسد الطيبة ، إما أنهم يعانون أو يموتون . إنه لا يحمل السعادة ، لأن الطيبة و الجمال الإنسانيين أشياء مغايرة . تبدّت هذه الطبيعة ، شيئا فشيئا، للكاتب أثناء سيرورة الكتابة . ومن هو سترافروغين هذا الغاوي كشيطان ، الذي يهيّج أهواء الجميع ، رجالا ونساء ؟ كيف صار؟ كان على الكاتب أن يبحث فيه هو الآخر ، ولدوستويفسكي عبارة أثيرة عنده هي : ‘ هذا ينمو مع الكتابة’ ، وهو ما نراه في المسودات ، حيث سيتغير ستافروكين كل يوم : فطورا يفكر كدوستويفسكي ( الفكرة الروسية ، الإيمان ،الأورثودوكسية ) وطورا يصبح على النقيض من هذا بالضبط . لا يخلق دوستويفسكي شخوصه دفعة واحدة قبل أن يكبّ على كتابة الرواية ، إنه يخمّن فيهم ، يكتشفهم خلال تفتّح الحبكة . كيف سيكونون في اللحظة الموالية ؟ خلال سنة ؟ إنه لا يعرف الجواب مسبقا.

– أين يتجلى الجانب الروسي في دوستويفسكي في مواجهة الغرب ؟ كيف نفسر انحرافاته القومية الروسية ؟

– ينبغي أن نعرف أن دوستويفسكي المتأخر أواسط أعوام 1870 الذي يتهم بقوميته الروسية المفرطة ، لم يكن يكفّ عن ترداد : ‘ نحن الروس لنا وطنان : روسيا وأوروبا’ إنه ينشدها كعبارة ‘ أبانا’ ، بيد أنه كان مهانا للغاية ، يقول : ‘ نحن أبناء أوروبا ، إننا نحبها ، ونحن مستعدون لخدمتها مدى الحياة . لكن أوروبا لا تحبنا ، ترانا كأيتام قاصرين ، لا تمحضنا الاهتمام ، تهجرنا ‘ . إنها معاناة لا تنتهي . في عمله الأخير ‘ مذكرات كاتب’ عام 1881 ، قبل موته بسنة بالضبط ، كانت خيبته كبيرة جدا إزاء أوروبا ، أوروبا هذه التي لا تحب روسيا ، لا تريد أن تراها أبدا مجيدة ، قوية ، رائعة ، منظمة ، بل تريد أن تراها تعيسة ، بئيسة كيما تهبها الصدقات وهي تتلذذ بتعاستها ، بل تساءل : ألم يكن الأمر يتطلب بالأحرى التوجه نحو آسيا ؟

– علام يستند كره النظام السوفييتي لدوستويفسكي؟

– معروف في العشرينيات أن لينين كان يكره دوستويفسكي ، مع أنه كان يقرّ بجلال قدره . لقد كانت تلك سنوات ازدهار الدراسات الدوستويفيكية ، ولقد أتاحت هذه الفترة ، على الرغم من كره الزعيم ( لينين) ، نشر متن هائل من الرسائل والمذكرات . أما وقد أزف عهد ستالين فإن كل شيء قد توقف ، ظل دوستويفسكي حتى الخمسينيات ممنوعا بالكامل لأسباب سياسية . لماذا ؟ لأنه بوصفه قد توقع حدوث الثورة ، فإنه اتهم بكونه مبشرا بالنازية . لقد صور الاشتراكية تصويرا لا يتجرأ أو يستطيع أن يقوم به أي من أعداء الاشتراكية اليوم. سمح لدوستويفسكي على مضض مع أول انفراج في 1960 ، فتمّ نشر أعماله الكاملة في عشرة مجلدات ، وتمت دراسته من دون حماسة ، لكنها موصومة دائما بوصمة العدو ، ولو أن المرء لم يعد يتهدده السجن أو المنفى إذا ما حاز كتبه . أما القطيعة فحدثت عام 1971 بمناسبة الذكرى المئة والخمسين لولادته التي أعلنتها ‘ الأونسكو’ : سنة دوستويفسكي ، وبغية إعادته إلى حقل الثقافة تمّ تقديمه من الآن فصاعدا بوصفه المبشر بالحركات الثورية الراديكالية ، نحو: البولبوتية1 والماوية باستثناء الشيوعية السوفييتية . استمرت هذه الكوميديا حتى البريسترويكا .

– ما إرث دوستويفسكي في الأدب الروسي من ‘ العصر الفضي’ إلى أيامنا ؟

– الورثة المباشرون ؟ العصر الفضي برمته كان مفتونا بدوستويفسكي، فكتاب كثيرون حاولوا محاكاته والاقتداء به ، فمثلا كان ( أندريه بيلي ) ، وهو يكتب ( بيترسبورغ) ، يضع نصب عينيه رواية ( الممسوسون) ، وأيضا ( ألكسندر بلوك) وآخرون… كانوا يحبونه ويتوددون إليه ويحسون أنهم قريبون منه . بيد أن هذا الإحساس تلاشى عند الكتاب المعاصرين ، إذ لم يحافظ عليه سوى الباحثين والنقاد . إن ما يتبقى اليوم هو دوستويفسكي : شعلة وقامة لا تنفك في التطاول، رغب القوم في تجاوزه . إن الأدب المعاصر فاقد بوصلته ، متغير ، يكتب من أجل الجوائز ، والموضات ، والفصول ، يتأرجح بين ما بعد الحداثة وما بعد ما بعد الحداثة . كان دوستويفسكي يقول : ‘ إنني من منزع لا يرفع من شأنه ‘ ، يتسم حضوره في ثقافتنا بدلالة عظيمة . يجاهد كتاب عديدون ضد هذا الإرث المقدس الذي يضايقهم ، إنهم يستشعرون ذواتهم هزيلة وضعيفة ، وهذا ما يجعلهم في حالة سعار وهو سعار إيجابي جدا ، إنهم يصارعونه في كتبهم ، يساجلونه ، يتمردون عليه ، ويبحثون عن نقاط ضعفه . وأحد الخطوط الحساسة هو ( راسكولينوف ) ، فليس ثمة مجرم يندم في أيامنا هذه ، فالقتلة في الروايات المعاصرة بدائيون ، لا يشعرون بعذاب النفس ، لقد اختفى هذا الصدع بين الجريمة والعقاب ، المعاناة و الإحساس بالذنب …وإحدى الحالات البالغة الأهمية هي حالة ( نابوكوف) ، ليست جديدة بالطبع ، لكنها تمثيلية ، لقد كان منخرطا في تمرد ٍ عات ٍ ضد دوستويفسكي ، فحتى حياة الكاتب الذي لا يمكن تجاوزه ، كانت تجعله مجنونا . كان يدلف إلى إحدى قاعات الدرس ويقول لطلابه الأمريكيين : ‘ إنني أتيت لأطيح بعرش دوستويفسكي ، سنسقط تمثاله ‘ . كان نابوكوف يريد أن يبين أن في مقدور المرء أن يكتب رواية بجريمة خالية من العيوب ، وبمجرم ممتاز لا يلقى القبض عليه أبدا ، ولا ينتابه الإحساس بالندم ولا تعتريه المخاوف . يعتبر نابوكوف أن راسكولينوف خدعة ، وليقيم الدليل على هذا شرع في كتابة ( الاحتقار) التي يختار فيها ( هرمان كارلوفيك ) ضحية ، ثم يقتلها ، لكنه يرتكب خطأ شنيعا كخطأ ( راسكولينوف) ، بحيث لم يستطع محو آثار الجريمة ، فيتم القبض عليه ، ولما انزوى في غرفته بالفندق بدأ يفقد الصواب . إن اليأس هنا هو يأس نابوكوف الذي أدرك أن الجريمة الخالية من العيوب لا توجد ، فكل جريمة تترك آثارا وتعود ، حتما ، تلازم المجرم .

– هل يمكن المقارنة بين أدوار دوستويفسكي و سولجنتسين في أدب وتاريخ الفكر الروسي ؟

– قطعا . إن ما توقعه دوستويفسكي عن القرن العشرين قد تحقق. لقد كان لدوستويفسكي تأثير كبير على سولجنتسين ، ومصائرهما متشابهة ، إذ خاضا معا تجربة السجن ‘ بيت الموت الروسي’ ، وكلاهما خرج منه متغيرا متجددا ، حاملا أهدافا جديدة ، إنهما لم يبصقا على هذه المعاناة ، بل كانا مدينين لها لما حققته من رفعة وجلال لهما . كما أن الرأي العام أساء إليهما بالطريقة ذاتها ، تمّ رفض مصافحة دوستويفسكي بعد روايته ‘ الممسوسون’ إذ أشيع أنه مجنون . أما سولجنتسين فأحبوه على روايته ‘ يوم في حياة إيفان دينوسوفيتش’ ، وكرهوه على روايته ‘ 14 من أغسطس’ فور إحساسهم أن بداخله طاقة أخرى هي هذا الحب التراجيدي لروسيا . لا دوستويفسكي ولا سولجنتسين احتقرا بلدهما ، حتى وهما يقدمان عنه صورة وحشية في الغالب ، بل بالعكس كانا يغدقان الحنان عليه ، ربما أنهما تمثلا روسيا ، لكن ما العيب في هذا ؟ فهما أيضا كانا ينتقدانها بلا هوادة. حين يتهم دوستويفسكي بنزعته الروسية الكارهة للأجانب ، فإنني أرغب في التساؤل : هل كان ستافروكين صينيا؟ هل كان ف . كارامازوف هنديا ؟ إنه العالم الروسي الفظيع والكريه. ألم يكشف لنا سولجنتسين عن الكذابين والخونة وضعاف النفوس ؟ فهو لا يصف إلا العالم الروسي . إنهما لم يكفّا عن جلد مواطنيهما بمن فيهم مالكو العقارات والرأسماليون والبورجوازيون والإنتلجنسيا والراديكاليون .

– أين يتجلى إسهام النقد الروسي في قراءة دوستويفسكي ، وتحديدا إسهام باختين ؟ وما هي آفاق البحث الدوستويفسكي المعاصر ؟

– لقد قام النقد الروسي بعمل جبار ، وساهم الفكر الديني الروسي للعصر الفضي إسهاما هائلا في فهم دوستويفسكي ، كما ساهم النقد الروسي المتأخر بحصته من الاكتشافات ، لكن الشروح تعاني من شبكة قراءة مؤدلجة للغاية . إن علاقتي بباختين معقدة . إنه فيلسوف صاحب نظرة شاملة هامة جدا . بيد أن أمثلته لا تصمد أمام امتحان النص . وفي وقتنا الراهن ثمة موضة جديدة ، هي أننا نرى الإنجيل في كل مكان .. نجد استشهادات في جميع الصفحات ، كما لو أن دوستويفسكي نقل الكتابات الدينية إلى لغة الرواية ، بإمكاننا الاعتقاد بأن كل شيء قد قيل من قبل ، وأعيد قوله ألف مرة . لكنه بعيد عن أن يتصور كسيرورة تقدمية لها بداية وتطور ونهاية . إن تأويل دوستويفسكي والكشف عن موضوعات وأبعاد جديدة في أعماله ، لا يرتبط بكثافة البحث بل بعقل الباحث . فالعقول تتغير وكذلك الأزمنة ، على سبيل المثال فإن ممسوسي اليوم ليسوا على نفس الشاكلة ، لقد تبدلوا . إنهم يتجسدون في المال والسلطة والفساد ، وحتى هذه العناصر سبق لدوستويفسكي أن تنبأ بها . ها هي شخصية لوجين في ‘ الجريمة والعقاب’ تمثل الروسي الغني الجديد ، أما ، من قبل ، حين كانت الظاهرة منعدمة ، فكان المرء يمرّ بالقرب منها ، من دون أن يتوقف عندها أو يلحظها . لكن اقرؤوا بتمعن : كل أشكال الرأسمالية الناهبة التي خرّبت روسيا في التسعينيات تتلخص في هذه الشخصية الكريهة . هكذا يمكننا صرف سنوات في اجترار دوستويفسكي ، وانجاز اكتشاف حاسم دفعة واحدة . إنه ذو عمق سحيق لا يفنى .

عن مجلة ‘ الماغازين ليتيرير’ ـ العـدد 495 ـ

  • المجلة الثقافية مجلة جزائرية، تسعى إلى خلق فضاء ثقافي وأدبي جاد، وفاعل، ترحب بكل الأقلام الجزائرية والمغاربية والعربية، فهي منكم وإليكم، لا تشترط المجلة من السادة الكتاب سوى النزاهة

 

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